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Luckily, I was able to move to a county that has lower personal property taxes, but they still are pretty stiff. I don't blame either for trying to keep/collect their money. We would have been quite upset if someone had us have to go thru a lot of paperwork for nothing with everything else that was going on. Changing domicile to Florida using Escapees was simple when the time came to become fulltimers. They think these taxpayers are getting over. So, what has been happening is that the high tax states that do impose use and sales taxes and high registration fees on RVs have been taking aggresive steps to counter the scheme by writing laws and regulations that make it very difficult to take advantage of the plan. But for other places, it pays to shop around. Anybody can form an LLC in Montana. #3 Feb 19, 2011 RacerX_GTO said: Texas Forever Six Time F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed Apr 28, 2003 64,719 Texas! I registered my $100K+ 5th wheel for $200 13 years ago & havent had to pay a penny since. Other wise, Texas doesnt care. Yeah it was expensive, but I never have to worry about this BS. JMO. Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free! Theyll go on to say, You told us on the application that you were keeping the car in your garage in Provo, Utah. I never say the I HAVE A MOTOR HOME REGISTERED IN A LLC etc..wake up people, the LLC is a separate legal entity just as you ALL CAPITAL NAME is LOL. Not all California residents with out-of-state plates are intentionally avoiding registering with the DMV . But I am the legal owner of the LLC. I am not a lawyer so take what a I say carefully. Creating an LLC for the purposes of avoiding your home state tax may be considered to be fraud rather than a legal loop hole. Consistency between these items, license plates and driver license, is the best way to proceed. The trooper didnt stop there. I wish to say that this I've heard rumors that California agents are stopping RVs with MT plates, but I can't find any verification of thisand nothing RECENT that's been posted. I am trying to research the possibility of forming an LLC in Montana and purchasing and insuring my new motorhome through a Montana LLC. Dont break the law in your home state. They are bureaucrats and they focus on everything. And if you do bring it back, you understand that you will be liable for the tax (at this point labeled as use tax but is the same amount). Insurance Ludwig http://www.the-signal.com/archives/14087/, (You must log in or sign up to post here. He was very dubious of the practice, so I registered the vehicle in Virgina (my home state). If your eager-beaver neighborhood agent wasnt thinking, and just added your Lambo to your personal policy, alongside your sensible minivan (hey, we dont judge! Looking for information about Buying an RV? Realistically speaking, if you intend to claim domicile in Texas, then bite the bullet and pay the Texas sales tax for your RV. Covers fuel permits for US & Canada. Using a Montana law firm, they created a limited liability corporation (LLC) in Montana for one purpose: to house their RV so they wouldnt have to pay sales tax. Pepper.. is your neighbor by any chance a CA resident, and how heavy was his RV? So if youre going to do this, dont make it obvious. This covid 19 situation has really put folks around here in a situation. 26. This works great in places like Kansas City. The value up to 100 percent can be written off immediately. 855-721-0777. Nothing has changed but reading your blog makes me wonder if it would be best to redo our wills in SD. Blog Public funded tuition and Scholarships are just another way for Big Government to Give money to the Schools.I don't feel sorry for the State of California AT ALL!!! No it isn't. Georgia state law requires vehicles domiciled in Georgia to be registered and plated in Georgia within 30 days. Even if you win, you lose. That's the difference. All vehicles inside the LLC are rated commercial - because it's a business. Yes, my job is to go after them with a vengeance and I gladly do this because they are cheaters, plain and simple. Join Date: Apr 2012. Shame on those who are so cheap they scheme to avoid paying a few hundred dollars in taxes to the detriment of all their fellow home state residents, particularly the elderly and poor kids who most depend on tax support! Or the solution might possibly be to move to a state where there is no sales tax like NH, but the "registration" fees there are very high. 2022 Genesis GV-80. Says so in the advertisements in Trailer Life magazine, "Montana has no sales tax." Your counsel would be appreciated! How long have I been telling folks the Montana LLC is a bad idea? They stay in one place for weeks, months, or years at a time. If you need Non-Owner or owner SR 22 insurance, Florida and Virginia FR44 insurance, Georgia SR22A insurance, Indiana SR50 insurance, an Ohio SR22 Bond, or DUI insurance, Select Insurance Group is the right SELECTion for you! That means, in effect, I own the RV with Montana plates. Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1. if that was a used car the sales tax in theory was paid on it when titled for the first time. The Test? States tax us to death!!! Sure, that 200-acre ranch property costs a cool $2 million. January 29, 2017at1:26 pm, gaiusgracchus said: First of all, what are states doing taxing full time RVers anyway for buying a home? I know, I know, some will say the Montana LLC is the legal owner. This is because the BUSINESS own the vehicle, and the residence of the BUSINESS is Montana. The local DPS promptly presented David and Dianne with their new Texas driver licenses (paper copies to use until the laminated plastic copies arrive by mail). For example the LLC would purchase a $250,000 motorhome and then turn around and lease it for $200 per month to a Michigan resident. Georgia (and we presume, other states, but we know Georgia, for sure) is also cross-referencing all cars with Montana registrations and Peach Pass toll accounts, and then having toll authorities hand over photographs of those cars passing through toll stations. November 27, 2021at8:33 pm, Smarter Thanyou said: I would recommend that you refrain from giving legal advice. It's not just Montana LLCs. I just eliminated their main focus which was tax evasion. Unlike the mass market insurance companies, our carriers know the deal, and our agents know the right questions to ask to make sure youre getting the insurance protection you need. Of course WA looked like FL after the King County voting mess last year. Javascript must be enabled for the correct page display. Lots of carriers will take your premium, sure. Since when is wifi in Cities suppose to be a God given Right??? And then you have the gas expenses to get it home from Montana. Ready for a quote? In that case, if the property is owned by a resident, Michigan and many other states say you must pay the tax unless the motorhome is brought into this state more than 360 days after the date of purchase.. But to stay in line with the rules to keep from having to pay the tax can be challenging, depending on how you use your RV (boat, airplane, etc), and depending on your state can be so restrictive as to make it not worth it. I think that the MT LCC is a bad idea for most. There was some issue with buying fuel for a rig that was owned by a corporation. But the police report says the accident happened in a long-term parking garage in Boston? NOT one iota!!! Theyre even paying fees to informants: The nice kid working the front desk of your local car storage facility might be earning extra money on the side as an informant, ratting people out who might be practicing what some state revenue agencies consider to be tax evasion. Still have the radios Again, I understand that others see this differently and have and will decide otherwise. Best of all it's totally FREE! Corporation buys the vehicle. . Our Goal is to find affordable insurance solutions for every driver, regardless of your previous insurance or accident history. They want their money. We know dozens of people whove purchased RVS in Montana and Wyoming, though none are from Michigan and all RV full-time. Qualified motor vehicle does not include recreational vehicles. K. Susie Adams has been a lawyer for over 30 years, spending 15 of those years working as a trial lawyer. Good thing she has friends. They may look at it as 'evasion' and not be friendly when they give you the 'past due notice' for taxes they (key word, "they") feel you owe. People who operate qualified motor vehicles are subject to IFTA licensing. See, when it comes to the specialty car market, you may not be in good hands, after all. ESPECIALLY on a supercar. Toured the Foretravel factory this spring. I have to laugh when I read posts like this. Montana LLCs almost always only work for full-timers who don't spend much time in their domicile state. Besides this, many insurers have been known to frown at covering an RV that is titled in Montana when the owner of the LLC lives in another state. An LLC offers limited . Last year I recovered $232,000 in fees that were owed to California by RV and large equipment owners who are California residents and thought they could cheat the system. Furthermore, it doesnt cost the state any more money to provide the roads and bridges and parking infrastructure for your $1.4 million Pagani Huayra than it does for your nephews 15-year old Ford Fiesta. Escapade: Escapees RV Club National Rally, RVers Boot Camp 62nd Escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Peasco Hangout (SOLD OUT/Waiting List). As an aside, it is important to remember that paying Texas sales tax helps to fund the local Livingston, Texas, community, a low-income, rural area, 70 miles northeast of Houston. LLC. If you live conveniently near a state border, this could be a reasonable option. Being from Illinois, I would still have to pay Michigan sales tax if I bought from a dealer up there, so maybe low or no sales tax states would be better. Because Montana has no sale tax on an RV, your only cost is the $1,000 to set up your LLC "business.". We already have contract to rent. Stay up-to-date with Club news, blog posts, events, and more. Then they send people out to find the cars. I even got my old DL# back. Not knowing where to park the RV, our daughter is now parked in a friends driveway, just waiting for the lifting of the law saying she must stay there Until she leaves the state where she is parked. I don't feel sorry at all. 2019 Grand Design 29TBS (had a Winnebago and 3x Jayco owner), 2016 F-150 3.5L MaxTow (had Ram 2500 CTD, Dodge Durango), 130W solar and 2005 Honda EU2000i twins that just won't quit. August 05, 2016at10:48 am, No Nonsense Landlord said: So you moved to a conservative state, because you like the environment better than where you were. Locations Just wait until they start taxing home purchases. Its much less likely to attract the wrong kind of attention. Where you happen to own a home and have a drivers license? Wikipedia has good description to begin understanding IFTA. Stick to things useful, helpful, and informative. Also, be careful driving your RV with Montana tags while towing your car with California tags in California with a California drivers license. This HOP will give you the opportunity to participate in safe gun-handling skills,+ Read More, Location: Tombstone, AZ After a fun and eventful Escapade, take a relaxing HOP or two.Let us do the driving; sit back, relax, and enjoy!Board a luxury motor coach with a+ Read More, Copyright 2021 Escapees, Inc. All rights reserved. Avoiding sales tax by using a Montana LLC is not illegal nor a scam. The cop only needs to ask for your license and then you're screwed. No problem getting insurance in LLC name and if I had wanted to finance that would not have been a problem either. Then, all your vehicles will have Texas license plates. She owns the LLC and the toad, so if shes properly insured, the only issue is her speeding. David and Dianne had completed the process in less than one day. Stay off of social media. Most other states strongly frown on Montana LLC RV Titling. After arriving in Livingston, they visited Escapees RV Club national headquarters where they obtained their new Texas address. Susie and her husband, James Frost, reside in Livingston, Texas. Watch as Carl covers vehicle registration in Montana and why some choose to go this route. Its exploitative and tyrannical, and they dont deserve that money. Some critics note they have set up tip-lines with rewards for people who spot RVs with Montana plates parked in storage yards or driveways for long periods of time. It doesn't pay to cheat the tax man. You can schedule online or by calling 888.871.8535. I loved the specifics Does someone know where I could possibly grab a template FL HSMV 85008 form to use ? Policymakers . A Montana LLC is considered a Montana resident and, like any other resident of Montana, won't pay a sales tax on any purchase. The state is getting theirs. In the case of CA cited by the OP, the State is trying to crack down on CA residents who have RVs with MT plates but who really are keeping them in CA for much of the year. I would suspect that you will also see other states start to do the same thing unless there is a successful court challenge. And when they get to the office, they will call their buddies at the Montana Department of Motor Vehicles and the Department of State and have them pull your information from your Montana LLC filing. Shes not doing anything wrong. Depending on your state's sales tax rate, you can legally save $25,000 or more on your purchase. Sign up and get a free Packing List for your next trip and free perks, discounts and RV travel tips! Worthless. Its not illegal to register a mh in another state when it begins to an llc of that other state and avoid taxes of any other state. They brought along their Texas vehicle registration, proof of insurance, their unexpired California driver licenses and other proof of required identification. Check it out by clicking here. Montana Limited Liability Companies. Yes!!!! New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Next, theyll notice that the vehicle is registered to an LLC, not to an individual. You wont be bothered in California. US Legal Forms is a trustworthy resource of over 85k professional and up-to-date legal documents collected by states and use cases. At least they used to be. So while forming an LLC in Montana and using it to buy a vehicle is perfectly legal in Montana, doing it to avoid paying sales tax in your own personal state of residence may not be. For about 2 years we were quite legal with having MI plates on the vehicles while we were in CA. Yet the get PO Boxes and list mailing addresses that end up being a Mail Boxes Ecetera. Tell us a little about yourself and your insurance needs. When youre buying a high-dollar luxury car, sports car, truck, or RV, those taxes can really put a hurting on you. Franchise Opportunity They may see no ethical dilemma. That way, your state Revenue Man cant argue that your LLC is a shell corporation used solely as a tax dodge. Or over time. Blast WA all you want too, it looks like a paradise compared to NV. The issue here, though, is what would a court decide? If the rig is owned by a corporation it is treated like a commercial truck and you have to buy fuel permits. /r/Cars is the largest automotive enthusiast community on the Internet. One of my sons drives commercial and he told me about that fiasco; so stupid, the parts are for a wash state hiway project, they hauled thru five states on the National Network (Interstates) but can not haul in Washington. Home was where I park it. California law says that you have to register the car within 20 days of entry into California. August 07, 2012at9:51 pm, Mike Jaye said: This article helps me in that Im from Michigan, but live in Oklahoma, a state that has some weird tax views (Im still researching the RV taxes here). If the LLC is in Montana but the owner of that LLC is in Michigan. An LLC, or limited liability company, is a business structure that can combine the best features of a corporation and a partnership. Uhaul is a legitimate business. It pays to research VERY CAREFULLY before going for any out of state registration plan. If you have a full time residence that is not your RV, then the downsides are many and complex. File Articles of Organization. So, if you truly want to leave your cares behind when you choose the full-time RV lifestyle, I recommend staying informed and remain certain that you are following the proper procedures to avoid future legal problems. I pay the taxes because if my son thinks the situation is dodgy, I will go with his judgement. P.S Thank you for interesting article, Excellent article, Mike. IMHO California must recognize the laws of Montana. and do not travel there anymore. We looked at doing a Montana LLC ,but it seemed a bit risky so we opted to bite the bullet and pay Colorado sales tax when we purchased our RV. But, what is the deal if you actually live in Montana, purchase an RV and then (lets say 6 months) move to another state. 1 permit for all of the states & provinces you operate in, not 50+ permits. We are Reddit's central hub for vehicle-related discussion including industry news, reviews, projects, videos, DIY guides, stories, and more. U-Haul and other legitimate rental businesses pay all applicable state/local sales and corporate income taxes on their rentals. I have researched state vehicle registration vs. Montana LLC and the like for a while now and have discovered articles on out of state registration enforcement . Regardless of where you live. An LLC can also be used to hold assets (such as real estate, vehicles, boats, or aircraft). Planning to use Montana state to register our RV Maybe your life partner will frown on you for not licking the boot, But I like the idea of buying it in a Montana LLC, leasing it back to myself, writing off all maintenance, expenses, upgrades, doing a 5 year depreciation schedule on it, and the final result is no sales tax, saving annually on income tax, and enjoying an RV with about 30 percent less investment than the midwit that wrote this article. That sort of exploitation only fuels the resolve of the high tax states to shut down the loophole. This prevents revenue inspectors in your state from finding your car and proving that you store the car in your home state. To avoid that one guy I know never brings his Montana LLC licensed MH into Cal, -ever-. And theyrepissed. Steve Mr. There are a lot of others doing it too. We want to be fulltime RVing. MS resident here. iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? 2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss after a semi "nicked" it. Having three or more axles regardless of weight; or ), you could have a big problem: The underwriters and attorneys reviewing your claim will immediately notice theres a disconnect between the name on the policy and the ownership of the vehicle. Would you be opening yourself up to some real problems, fines etc. . If I own a business that does business in Arizona, and I live in Utah, where do the taxes get paid? Its been raging pretty much ever since we started the RV Lifestyle back in 2012 and it continues to be a topic we are asked about all the time. Frequently Asked. There is only one significant pro - the savings in sales tax dollars. Whats more, you dont even have to be a Montana resident to do it! My first thought after reading the title was "doug demuro ", He's in California, but nonetheless, good on him. December 07, 2021at8:10 pm, B Moore said: Note the last sentence And as another point I would like to thank those that do this illegally, so I can pay more tax for THEIR gain. Any comments ? We cant say the same for all the name-brand mass market carriers do. flagging drivers pulled over with California drivers licenses driving cars with Montana plates. but not tax evasion illegal since FL does not charge a property tax. It has cost a ton of tax revenue. Taxation in this country is out of control, and people are fed up with it. Forming an LLC does not create a business nor does it create a corporation. Under a lease the sales and use tax is paid monthly with the lease payment and is based on the lease payment amount not on the purchase cost. Theyre big and conspicuous. Regardless, the law is the same, if you bring it back to Texas, you will need to pay use/sales tax. Discussion in 'California (Southern)' started by Texas Forever, Feb 13, 2011. California has a big problem with California residents registering as Nevada Corporations. Do you even have a legitimate insurable interest in the vehicle at all? There is no free lunch. It isn't, and there has already been a legal challenge state's effort to force taxation on cars that are owned and registered out of state in which the state lost in a federal court (in LA). brandon fugal wife; lucky 13 magazine 450 bushmaster. A Montana LLC is no different than filling up your fuel tank, before entering CA, because the fuel taxes are lower in an adjoining state. To add to your article and I feel correct decision1) when any of the LLC creating law firms are asked for an opinion of its legality they make none and send you a copy of your present state law re who is required to have plates in that state 2) as an insurance agent for many years I also have serious issues of using a personal Auto Policy to cover a vehicle that is a commercial enterprise. Id like to see extra posts like this . Youre very mistaken and your conscience is misguided. (log books, annual inspections, CDL, etc). An LLC is considered a legal entity, able to buy and sell property. Montana LLC. Another good reason I moved from CA. I would definitely consider registering an LLC in MT considering my home state VLT is outrageous when youre considering buying an expensive RV and your 1st year VLT can be thousands of dollars. Michigan has a one time, lifetime registration fee for towable rvs. The state is calling these LLC's exactly what they are, a sham to avoid taxes. Required fields are marked *. Ridiculous. (Truly, I forget).. Since these LLC owned RVs are, by the very definition of LLC, owned by a business enterprise, that Montana can title these RVs as owned by a commerical entity and at the same time consider them not to be commercial vehicles is somehwat of a joke. It depends on the state lease regulations if this can work. Find An Agent Now, Montana charges an $825 "luxury fee" to register a vehicle worth more than $250,000. Why in the world would I fabricate something like this, I still have a job to occupy my time. A lot of this article is from the twilight zone. Also, have you heard any war stories about California cracking down on Montana plates? It's not a front business that does zero deals with anyone a year set up solely for the purpose of the owner to evade paying taxes on a car. Heres a link to said video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebDF-C7GJec. Setting Up Your Domicile In Texas If I would be in violation of the law, I would not choose that route. I've had an LLC and IFTA for many years. I digress, pay the sales tax and then they want property tax on an already taxed item every year. With that address, proof of vehicle insurance and an inspection of the towed Jeep, they headed to the county tax assessor-collector to register their vehicles. As far as sales and use taxes on an RV, many states have two provisions one for non-residents, one for residents. Bottom line; unless you live IN Montana, DONT DO IT! One is a result of the way the business works, the other is tax evasion. The more you give the government the more they want and take. Another technique is to use your Montana LLC for a bona fide business purpose. Hours of Operation. Copyright 2023 RV Lifestyle. This is exactly what Ive been wondering. Others say inspectors cruise RV storage facilities facilities and actively look for vehicles with Montana plates. Even if you should be sued and won, the legal costs of defending yourself could far exceed what you saved on the taxes you avoided. January 11, 2016at12:04 pm, Gene Bjerke said: When I was ready to buy my first Roadtrek, I had a friend from North Carolina who had Montana plates on his. We have a MH with MT plates and are SD residents, but in most years the MH isn't even in SD for a day and when it is it is only there for a week or two. Thank you to everyone who responded. In fact, since you plan to travel extensively throughout the country, to firmly establish Texas as your home, you need to follow what I call the Ten Commandments of Domicile (in this order): The reason the Washington DPS officer suspected a problem was because of the discrepancy between Texas plates, Texas driver licenses and that Montana plate on the RV. They didnt think they were writing a commercial policy when you bought it.
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montana llc crackdown california
