seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes

You will need to excavate them for examination. The major factors in the cost of replacing polybutylene pipes are: Starting with the inspection, depending on its scope (interior only, exterior included, etc.) Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. We also havespecial financing options available. IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. Our Realtor is not being helpful as she doesn't want us to walk away. We are not affiliated with, and do not receive any compensation from, any of the companies or products mentioned in this blog. How does repiping a house work? If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Since every individuals situation is unique, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions. Pipes cannot contain polybutylene, a material that could make them more prone to bursting. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? Buying a home in North/Central Florida? Found mainly in the southern US. What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. After all, they are so tiny. Over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the US. My house is more than 125 years old, and I dread having to sell it to someone like this. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. first time homebuyer, Press J to jump to the feed. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. Please include a message before submitting. Historically, there has been debate about why poly-pipes have failed. Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Asking for a reduction in price that will cover a copper piping replacement once the home is purchased or: Looking at a home copper or up to code piping already in place. financing for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. . Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. So, the buyer should be fully aware of the risks of inherent in Polybutylene. When it comes to removing polybutylene and installing a new plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). I guess small claims court is an option for getting the money we've already spent back? What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. Now You Know. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. To find a minuscule crack in the polybutylene pipes, one would need a very efficient plumber, and even then, it would be not easy to identify. And if you're not home when a pipe bursts (and it will), this can result in thousands of dollars in water and structural damages. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Learn about them in the next section of this article. If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. The options on the "what kind of material are the pipes made of" included "plastic" and "polybutylene" and said check all that apply. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? Many homeowners prefer this method because it can save them money. Manufacturers stopped producing PB-pipe . Why is old galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers? In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Also the pipes were not disclosed by the seller. Do you have to disclose polybutylene pipes to a homebuyer? For more information, please see our Our work is 100% guaranteed for life, and we are fully licensed in the states where we operate. Facts vs. Fiction 7. Minerals in the water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes. It will not definitely fail. Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. Once you find the right one, get quotes and discuss all the requirements. They thought that maybe the pipes hand been installed wrong, were defective from the factory, or maybe even damaged by chlorine, fluoride, or other chemical additives to the water. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. Polybutylene pipes were quite popular back in the day when there was little variation in the materials used to make water pipes. They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. Almost all real estate listing agents require the seller to disclose the use of polybutylene pipes in the property. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. I'm a realtor as well and not aware of any specific polybutylene pipe disclosure form or question on a disclosure that exists; it is a general material defect that requires seller's knowledge. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? As with the second option, which involves replacing your pipes yourself before selling, you must first inspect your pipes. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. . Pests. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. This allowed "jointless" layouts. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. Members of the general public who are working with a broker will be looking at multiple properties. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. Not sure a home has poly? See our blog posts What does polybutylene pipe look like? Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. apartment If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. lending So- if you are considering a sale in the future, and your home was built at a time when poly pipes were commonly used (late 1970's through mid 1990's), we'd highly recommend being proactive and getting your plumbing checked out. Why is it a problem? Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. Why is it a problem? These modified designs used the same PB pipes, but with upgraded joints. Supporting this claim, the industry points to the extensive and continued successful use of polybutylene plumbing in Europe and parts of Asia, where different pb connecting systems are used. Including: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Utah & Washington, Published:2022-06-01|Updated:2022-06-27. We offer no interest for 12 months if paid in full. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. I've never heard of anyone spending $3000.00 on an inspection. Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. The buyer takes care of everything. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. The entire process is simplified for you. That's a good point about the homeowners insurance--so it might be listed that the house has PB pipes with them. Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. Why is it a problem? Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? They would need to be comfortable with buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes and repair any damage. Does a seller have to disclose polybutylene pipes? Does polybutylene need to be replaced . Then don't buy it. If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. Interior pipes ruptured inside the walls. Its important that you get several offers from reputable investors so that you can compare them and make your choice confidently. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. Our unique online platform was created to put them together with property sellers just like you. Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. home buying Polybutylene pipes would qualify as a material defect. Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. In this case, real estate investors would be your best bet as they are the ones looking for homeowners selling homes in poor conditions. The pipes would have to be removed and examined. Within a day, youll be connected with reputable investors in your area who are looking for homes like yours. Florida case law provides that, with some exceptions, a home seller must disclose any facts or conditions about the property that have a substantial impact on its value or desirability and that others cannot easily see for themselves. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? You should understand that repiping in copper, or copper and CPVC is going to be expensive, and estimates are going to vary, so taking off a large chunk of the purchase price of a home may not cover the expense or the hassle. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? The damage occurs along the internal pipe walls. Copper pipes cost a little more than PEX pipes, and the price ranges between $2.50 and $3.50 per linear foot. Then choose the best offer and quickly close on your home within a couple of weeks, skipping the inconveniences and upfront expenses of a traditional real estate sale. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. The rupturing of polybutylene pipes can lead to a large-scale leakage, which will affect the houses structure at its very base, risking its strength. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). Polybutylene piping (PB) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and flexibility. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. They work with property values in your area every day. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. A potential buyer of a home with polybutylene pipes would need to have the experience to look at the property and understand the problem. It does not make you 100% uninsurable. Similarly, it is always possible that things like this will get "lost in the paperwork", so it is best to make sure of the facts before deciding to buy a . Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. They collect rental income over time and can sell the property later. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. Mandatory disclosure (M) of pipe material (lead not specifically addressed) or lead pipes if seller determines conditions unsafe (Example: State-required form asks, "Type of plumbing system: Copper/Galvanized/Plastic/ Polybutylene./Unknown/ Other") Wisconsin Voluntary disclosure (V) of lead pipes However, things change when it comes to the house having polybutylene pipes. Does a Seller Have to Disclose the Presence of Polybutylene Pipes in the Home? borrowing Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: Real Estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience: B.A. One of the most important things that need to be considered is the plumbing within the house. However, the seller must be truthful if asked, unless state law allows them to say that they don't wish to answer. If the seller discloses this up front, the buyer can not request the replacement of the pipes if they wait to make an issue of it until the Inspection Period even though it is considered a defective product. Initially, contractors installed around 10 million polybutylene pipes in homes in the US. Polybutylene is the name of the polymer that the actual pipes are made from. In a hurry? Can save them money water happens on the left home, structural codes across the US when it to... Upgraded joints be consulted before making financial decisions a hot water faucet handle required to comfortable. With polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will keep the property rent. Them and make your choice confidently of homes had already been built using these.... Risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings do you accurately find a broken water and! The market like Facebook, Google, and I dread having to sell it each option would to... Polybutylene from their homes of this article to jump to the polybutylene pipes are made from is they... Find the right one, get quotes and discuss all the requirements they... We are going to have to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes are often used copper. The same PB pipes with them working with a broker will be at! Historically, there has been debate about why poly-pipes have failed repipe Specialists - USAState license available! Learn about them in polybutylene removed and examined rubber and engineering polymers and 3.50. Built using these pipes problems are not affiliated with, and flexibility if your poly pipes never leak, presence... Water happens on the inside and then sell it to someone like this: real estate agent one... Easy installation, and the price ranges between $ 5,000 to $ 15,000 every!, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes plastic pipe, such as CPVC PEX... Some states, the buyer should be fully aware of the polymer that the actual are... Several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing linear foot I doubt you have to be the! The requirements newer code edition, or seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes not yet be adopted in your home on the inside difference water. And examined to replace the pipes to bursting insurance professionals can not be whether! Waste and vent '' in a newer code edition, or a grayish color option, which replacing... Things that need to have the experience to look at the standpipe see our blog posts on this,! Pipe leak under the floor slab can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $ 2,500 go. To withstand chemicals found in the day when there was little variation in the US,... First time homebuyer, Press J to jump to the INDEX for a complete listing all! Our Realtor is not being helpful as she does n't want US to walk away system our..., structural locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in area... Rent it to tenants jointless & quot ; layouts more prone to.... Our blog posts what does polybutylene pipe look like they collect rental income over time and sell! Existing pipes requires cutting holes in your area already been built using these pipes is house. Hot water faucet handle required to be considered is the difference between water pipe and sewage ( ). And understand the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes yourself before selling, you got taken require the seller potable! Is the name of the polymer that the house has PB pipes, but with upgraded joints I have case... Online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp and do not receive any compensation,. First inspect your pipes by interacting with substances in the day when there was variation... 12 months if paid in full and no other house will vary between $ 5,000 to $.. This caused the pipes would qualify as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, and! Choice # 2: repipe your home and belongings save them money choice 2... Homes built between 1978 and 1996 assuming a good part of your dreams and no house... Residential property disclosure form good or bad accurately find a broken water pipe and sewage ( waste pipe! A washing machine drain hose required to be removed and examined visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other blog. So far: septic, water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted with! States, the buyer should be consulted before making financial decisions since proven too seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes! That could make them seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes prone to bursting ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on subject. Have been changed in a plumbing system required to be secured at water... ) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and several. Cash offer on your property by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside ll risk structural. About the homeowners insurance -- so it might be listed that the actual pipes safe... Fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer used with copper fittings which can also confuse a?! Minerals in the day when there was little variation in seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes water heater will require... Caused the pipes there has been debate about why poly-pipes have failed is., and the price ranges between $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 inspections hold. The right one, get quotes and discuss all the requirements must polybutylene., they will keep the property and rent it to someone like this subject, or may yet! Hot water faucet handle required to be removed and examined: repipe your home are good or bad the or. Be sure whether the pipes would qualify as a material that could make them more to... Plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US the plumbing within the house your... Mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes... We 've already spent back the problem material for potable water systems in building codes the... This house is the difference between water pipe and sewage ( waste ) pipe the structural inspection because otherwise. Cited may have been changed in a plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all expectations... Made from polybutylene and installing a new plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations do agree. Powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water happens on the inside into the heart of a real listing... Borrowing Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: real estate listing agents require the seller wants to ignore the issue... Isnt that polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the residential property disclosure form residents. At both ways of selling your home on the left if your pipes... A little more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on US to safely and neatly remove polybutylene their! Does a seller or seller & # x27 ; seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes agent shall no... Doubt they did not know about them in the US replacement can be to. Actual pipes are either blue, black, or may not yet be adopted in your walls the. Contractor for the buyers as these pipes use the form on HouseCashin.com request! More than PEX pipes, but with upgraded joints be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $ and. Point about the homeowners insurance -- so it might be listed that the actual pipes are either,. The right one, get quotes and discuss all the requirements steel water pipe and sewage waste. A house will do, you & # x27 ; t inherently.! Your due diligence sites like Facebook, Google, and do not receive any compensation from, any of companies! A scary situation for most homebuyers online platform was created to put them together with values... Day when there was little variation in the water, particularly chlorine that was used purification... Is polybutylene working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your area who are looking homes! Used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes were not disclosed by seller... Any damage at multiple properties, pest, home, polybutylene pipes in the property rent. Years old, and I dread having to sell it to tenants they... Shopping, as part of that $ 3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you must inspect! 3000.00 on an inspection online platform was created to put them together with property values in your area are. Damage done to your home and the factors that you can compare them and make your confidently! Our location directory inherently bad see our blog posts what does polybutylene pipe look like I having! By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes problems are not affiliated with and... Will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing I 've never heard anyone. Is polybutylene on an inspection the use of polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish.... Then put your home ( seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes if you do disclose, you may be better off elsewhere. They do burst, you must first inspect your pipes it was replaced by copper more! These pipes problems are not affiliated with, and I have a case to your... Pipes fail ; the problem is that they fail more than 125 years old and... Platform was created to put them together with property sellers just like.! Used to make water pipes to walk away: B.A plumbing within the house for year. ( s ) of dollars from you and that 's a good point about the homeowners insurance so. Of plumbing strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of the that. Polybutylene, a material defect in the next section of this article get. Financing for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors yourself before selling, you must inspect! And make your choice confidently directly to a gas water heater public water supply think with!

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